jeffpickering12

Abortion Conversation 1

In Uncategorized on March 24, 2009 at 12:40 PM

Last month, February, A discussion was sparked about our President and abortion policy. So if you weren’t following the Comment Thread on the post, The O. Presidency, What Obama’s Doing Wrong, this is a part of the conversation that I found worth sharing… enjoy.

 

(February, 19 from A Concerned Citizen to Prustice)

“On an issue like partial birth abortion, I strongly believe that the state can properly restrict late-term abortions. I have said so repeatedly. All I’ve said is we should have a provision to protect the health of the mother, and many of the bills that came before me didn’t have that.

Part of the reason they didn’t have it was purposeful, because those who are opposed to abortion have a moral calling to try to oppose what they think is immoral. Oftentimes what they were trying to do was to polarize the debate and make it more difficult for people, so that they could try to bring an end to abortions overall.”

“I think that most Americans recognize that this is a profoundly difficult issue for the women and families who make these decisions. They don’t make them casually. And I trust women to make these decisions, in conjunction with their doctors and their families and their clergy, and I think that’s where most Americans are.” -Barack Obama

I believe this is rhetoric. I believe there is a solid record to be found. I can also glean from this a willingness to compromise on late-term (not partial-birth, as those procedures are so rare as to not even be a statistic) abortion. This took me a good five minutes to find. If you’re unwilling to do even the basic research, why should your arguments be credible?

Let’s ignore for a moment the medical side of the argument, the legal side of the argument; all positions on the issue with a basic in scientific fact or precedent going back decades. It’s true, Thatcher or Gandhi could have been aborted. But so could Hitler, Ted Bundy, Lee Harvey Oswald, Timothy McVeigh, and countless others responsible for the taking of ADULT lives. I find that argument ludicrous, one which appeals to those who choose not to think. And for those in impoverished nations who need access to family planning, what would you suggest? Abstinence? That’s a concept best understood by industrialized, majority-Christian nations, not the underdeveloped countries the policy is trying to help. But that’s the problem with this particular social issue. Those on your side fail to see eye to eye on any issue, because you have been told all your lives the procedure is evil. Is removing a blastocyst evil? A fetus? Am I going to Hell if I am a doctor who does my job? To you, yes. To me, I understand what makes a human being a human being, and know that abortion in no way takes human life. Partial-birth procedures are the exception, but there is not a medical procedure that is so rarely practiced in this day and age, unless leeching is included.

In response to your use of rhetoric, all I can say is rhetoric is most effective when there is no need to call attention to it, something which you’ve done multiple times in your posts. Only when properly administered can rhetoric affect the positions of others, and I fail to see how these posts will win anyone over, based on what I have seen.

I’m sure you’ll post some sort of defense, and I look forward to reading it. However, I think you are being intellectually dishonest, perhaps without intending to. There is certainly a bias here, and I will be surprised if it doesn’t show through in future posts. I will be watching closely.

Sincerely,
A Concerned Citizen

 

(February 23 Prustice’s response)

A Concerned Citizen,

You said, “If you’re unwilling to do even the basic research, why should your arguments be credible” You are right and I apologize. Obama has made some statements that tell us he stands on the side of continuing abortions. I’m sorry I overlooked this, and thank you for pointing it out.
You made a point saying that if people like Hitler were aborted less “ADULT lives” would’ve been taken. My question to you is, why are adult lives more valuable than the lives of growing infants? Age should have no bearing on human rights and that’s where this blog stands, (read Prustification).
You said, “for those in impoverished nations who need access to family planning, what would you suggest? Abstinence? That’s a concept best understood by industrialized, majority-Christian nations, not the underdeveloped countries the policy is trying to help.” I’ve been overseas in impoverished nations. I have friends in underdeveloped countries and they are just like you and me. They’re driven and smart. If taught, just like us, they can understand abstinence and birth control as means of family planning. Why do you think terminating their children is the help needed? I think faith in their intellect is low with Obama’s policy.
As for the, “Am I going to Hell if I am a doctor who does my job? To you, yes,” statement, my question is simple. Why are you bringing “going to Hell” into this discussion? I never wrote, nor believe, anything close to that. This is the creation of an off-topic straw man, built to tear down and support your bias, instead of responding to what I wrote and nothing more.
This discussion won’t be constructive for readers if we don’t get back to the topic, President Obama and abortion policy.
You asked, “Is removing a blastocyst evil? A fetus?” and stated, “To me, I understand what makes a human being a human being, and know that abortion in no way takes human life.” Well, I too believe I understand what makes a human being a human being, and I firmly believe that abortion in everyway takes human life.
The blastocyst stage ends after week 4. The heart, circulatory system, and neural tube are forming in the little embryo during week 5. Nose, mouth, and ears are taking shape while intestines, pituitary gland, brain, muscles, and bones are forming, the heart is beating at about 100 to 160 beats per minute as blood moves through their system in week 6. (Abortions performed during or after week six are stopping a heartbeat.) Their liver is pumping out red blood cells, the umbilical cord has distinct blood vessels to transport oxygen and nutrients, and an appendix and pancreas both exist in week 7. Webbed fingers and toes are showing themselves, breathing tubes are heading to their lungs as nerves in the brain connect to each other during week 8. The embryo, that has a beating heart, becomes a fetus, after all this human growth has occurred, eight weeks after conception. And more significantly, their soul is bearing the image of God from day one.
When someone’s heart ceases to beat, that person dies. Majority of abortions (77% or 500,004/642,170 lives in 2000) stop a beating heart.
Yes, I am biased. I have firm beliefs about human rights that guide both my life and this blog. So expect it; my beliefs will be undeniable.
I don’t know if I’ll win you over and that’s ok because I’m loving your contributions to this discussion. My hope for people like us is that we could debate issues with respectful vigor and still be able to sit and enjoy a cup of coffee together once the closing words are expressed.

Have a great week,
-Jeff

http://www.babycenter.com/6_your-pregnancy-6-weeks_1095.bc

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5212a1.htm (Stats from Tables 6 & 7)

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  1. Thank you for not posting my rebuttals, making these posts one-sided and in favor of your position.

  2. Do you have a blog? I’d be interested to read it.

  3. I don’t, actually. I’ve been considering it.

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